Subject: Re: [lojban] dictionary - which words?

From: Jay F Kominek <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:33:03 -0600

On Sat, Aug 31, 2002 at 09:12:02PM +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote:
> 
> >From: Jay F Kominek <[email-masked]>
> >On Sat, Aug 31, 2002 at 03:55:22PM -0400, Robert LeChevalier wrote:
> > > It is not that they are in some way distinct, it is that they have a
> > > specific translation to English (or some other target language).
> >
> >And vice versa. "sadness" should not be omitted from the dictionary
> >merely because it does not correspond to a single word.
> 
> Of course "sadness" should appear in the English-Lojban part,
> but surely noone is planning to include "ka badri" as a separate
> entry in the Lojban-English part, I hope. Similarly, "se mau"
> should not be a separate entry.

I was thinking ".uinai" myself. Sure, you can look up ".ui" and negate
it. But maybe the person wants to look up ".uinai". Is there something
inherently wrong with their wanting to do that?

> > > semau: se mau: less than (grammatical conversion of mau)
> > > mau: more than; see also semau
> >
> >I would simply omit the spaceless version, but sort it so that "se mau"
> >appears where "semau" would be. (And, I suppose, where you'd expect to
> >find it with the space in there.)
> 
> I would not expect to find either "se mau" nor "semau" as an entry
> in a dictionary that lists words.

Don't go looking for it.

Why would it be a bad thing to explain combinations of words, when they're
clearly marked as being multiple words? Just because you shouldn't need
to look them up once you know all the cmavo doesn't quite seem like
sufficient justification for removing entries. People may, after all,
want to use a dictionary before they've mastered Lojban.

> >Further, it seems like a poor idea to try and use the dictionary to
> >correct a failing of the pedagogical process. Teach people how words
> >break apart properly, and this is a nonconcern.
> 
> Exactly. Then when you want to know what "semau" means you search
> under "mau" (or under "se" if that is the part you don't know).

Just because someone can break the words apart, doesn't mean I expect
them to know what a given combination means. That depends on how far
along they are in learning. There is a difference between correct
pedagogical process, and teaching someone everything there is to know.

Thinking "semau" is a single word is wrong, not knowing the meaning of
"se mau" isn't wrong. Merely simple ignorance, easily corrected by a
dictionary entry. Even if it is one that points the reader to "mau" or
"zmadu".

-- 
Jay Kominek <[email-masked]>
UNIX is all about covering up
the fact that you can't type.