From robin@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx Tue Nov 2 08:11:01 1999 X-Digest-Num: 274 Message-ID: <44114.274.1534.959273825@eGroups.com> Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 18:11:01 +0200 From: Robin Turner > > So question: If each lojban gismu has only one definition, which is > > > the definition for "pendo"? > > > > > > x1 is a friend to x2 > > > > > > or > > > > > > x1 acts like a friend to x2 > > [...] > > > Good question. It would seem to me that "acts like a friend" ought to be a > > tanru... > > Lojbab? John? Comments? What's the "correct" definition of "pendo" - > is, acts, or both? > > Hmm, this should be another thread, but what is the metaphysics of > lojban? Relativist (acts like)? Absolutist (is)? "Agnostic" (both)? Tricky, since "friend" is culture-specific. Turkish "arkadas^" is more like "acts-like" whereas "dost" is definitely "is". A prototypical arkadas^ both acts in a friendly way and feels strong affection, while a peripheral arkadas^ is just someone you interact with in some way e.g. evarkadas^ = "house-mate", leading one of my students to mistranslate * I do not like my house friend. I'd suggest we define {pendo} as "x1 feels affection for x2 AND x1 regularly interacts with x2". So "is a friend to" is fine, but "acts like a friend" should be "acts as a friend", since the English "acts like" has connotations of deceit, and it would be illogical to include deceit in the same definition. We wouldn't, for example, define {pulji} x1 is a policeman/woman; x1 acts like (but is not) a policeman/woman This example makes it clear that the question is not really metaphysical. "Being ordained by some official body to enforce the law" is a defining feature of "police", whereas "wearing a blue uniform" is simply a typical feature. To use {pulji} for someone who wears a blue uniform, helps old ladies across the road or makes a citizens' arrest would require {pe'a}. Similarly, "feeling affection for" is a defining feature of (English) "friend", which distinguishes it from such categories as "aquaintance", "colleague", "associate" or "crony". co'o mi'e robin.