From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Sep 01 09:41:21 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 1 Sep 2002 16:41:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 74452 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2002 16:41:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2002 16:41:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2002 16:41:20 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17lXmr-0005dU-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 09:41:21 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17lXmf-0005dC-00; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 09:41:09 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 01 Sep 2002 09:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17lXmZ-0005d3-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 01 Sep 2002 09:41:03 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g81GjUwD015118 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:45:30 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g81GjTYj015117 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:45:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:45:29 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: Set stuff Message-ID: <20020901164529.GA14957@allusion.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 896 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In le selcmi be ro selcmi poi ke'a na cmima ke'a as a translation of "The set of all sets which aren't members of themselves", I ran into a question about set gadri. If I have "le selcmi", the sumti already refers to a set (individually), right? Is it neccesary to use "le'i selcmi"? Or would "le'i selcmi" actually mean something else? (ba'a: le'i selcmi =3D=3D piro le'i su'o selcmi =3D=3D the whole of the set of some sets?). Which leads me to my next question. If the above is correct, is it better to say something more like: le'i ro selcmi poi ke'a na cmima ke'a or even the traji concise: lo'i selcmi be na'ebo ri I'm liking the last one at this point (but not entirely sure if it's correct use of set operators). Also; I'm not sure if that ri works properly; I know ri looks back to the first "complete" sumti, so perhaps that wouldn't work there... Can ya use ke'a in a be? If so then perhaps lo'i selcmi be na'ebo ke'a would fix the ri problem... Anyone have a better suggestion for the translation? --=20 Jordan DeLong fracture@allusion.net --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9ckQpDrrilS51AZ8RAlfRAKCdzREMuBSX0XTlA2/DGvNy9m6gSQCdGNIj jPTlL0RUyg0UKc8FKJrsRQE= =nn51 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE--