From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Sep 08 11:59:41 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 8 Sep 2002 18:59:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 2526 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2002 18:59:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2002 18:59:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2002 18:59:40 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17o7HY-00045k-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 11:59:40 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17o7HM-00045S-00; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 11:59:29 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 08 Sep 2002 11:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17o7HB-00045J-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 11:59:22 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g88J4IwD084737 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 14:04:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g88J4IPa084736 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 14:04:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 14:04:18 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: Re: [lojban] me le cmalu turni me'u panomoi bo pagbu Message-ID: <20020908190418.GA84375@allusion.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 985 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 06:38:14PM +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote: > la greg cusku di'e > > > i e'e do ja'a kakne > > > >{e'edai} I think this a case where {dai} should be used ju'oru'e mi la greg. tugni > To better understand {e'e} I look at its neighbours: >=20 > e'a permission: you may do it! I let you do it. > e'e exhortation: you can do it! I encourage you to do it. > e'o request: please do it! I ask you to do it. > e'u suggestion: you might do it! I suggest you do it. > ei obligation: you should do it! I think you should do it. erm... {ei} is almost always used to talk about the speaker. for example: ca gunka .ei means "I need to work", not "you should work". > They are all primarily oriented to the actions of the hearer, > though this is by no means a restriction: {do} need not be the > agent of the bridi, it might be someone else. The speaker > is the one who gives permission, exhorts, requests, suggests > or feels that something should be done, it is not the one > allowed, exhorted, asked, suggested or obliged to do something, > unless of course the actor is {mi}. If I say do ca gunka .ei it means that *I* feel obliged that you work. (Perhaps i'm a middle-manager). To mean what you want I think the dai is neccesary: do ca gunka .eidai > >Hey, I just noticed why your texts look so attractive: you've gotten rid= of > >all those unnecessary explicit {.} >=20 > Exactly :) no'i .oi traji mabla zo'o .i mi jinvi ledu'u me'o denpa bu cu melbi .i ru'a le ni ri slabu re do cu na banzu zo'o --=20 Jordan DeLong fracture@allusion.net --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9e58xDrrilS51AZ8RAhTQAJ0f7A6zSbagYjBD7HU0x79pM8p8iACfWxvL MIjiK4GqMZ0yOpLd2PSFbfw= =WNVS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1--