Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: word for "www" (was: Archive location.)

From: Robin Lee Powell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:13:33 -0700

On Tue, Sep 10, 2002 at 03:35:33PM -0400, [email-masked] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/10/2002 12:54:20 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> [email-masked] writes:
> 
> <<
> > > > ralcku could be a library.
> > > 
> > > Are you saying that a library is one cukta? You've given me the
> > > argument right here.
> > 
> > See above. Try to stay with me.
> >>
> This remark is dangerously close to undercutting the later claim not to have 
> been personally insulting. I can see no evidence here that suggest xod has 
> not been following the argument up to the point that this irrelevancy appears 
> out of clear blue sky. 

If you had included the part that I underlined, it would make more
sense. I had already specifically stated that I was granting that point
for the sake of argument.

> <<
> > > Almost a third of the world would probably assume that ralcku was
> > > the Bible (that's the most important book, right?).
> > >
> > > Another quarter would assume it was the Koran.
> > 
> > It contains the Bible and Koran. That makes it just as, if not more ralju.
> 
> <sigh>
> 
> Are you being deliberately obtuse?
> 
> It's also contains http://www.thehun.net/, which most people would not
> consider the most important book.
> >>
>
> So, the rest was meant to be commentary on the sentence, which means
> "The books that people would think are most important would fill a
> library" or some such. Not the most natural reading (or the second or
> third) but possible. I think the rhetorical question is again close
> to personally insulting -- close enought to declare a flame war surely
> (given that I get called a troll for far less and better justified).

Granted. I have already apologized to xod off-list.

> <<
> Ummm, the actual concept of the web is about sharing educational
> resources between universities. 8)
> >>
> I like this move usually -- being totally literal to make your
> opponent look foolish. It is not cooperative, of course, and, in this
> case, just makes you look obtuse, so it probably fails (maybe it
> always does, considering the trouble it has gotten me into).

Note the smiley. The intention was irony.

> <<
> The whole *point* of lujvo is that someone should be able to dissect
> them and figure out what you mean.
> 
> I will bet you *any* *amount* *of* *money* (and I mean that) that if
> you ask 20 non-lojbanists what 'principal (as in most important) book'
> means, with no other information, that no more than 1 or 2 will guess
> the web.
> >>
> 
> That specification of "the whole of lujvo" would (and does) come as a
> shock to long-time lujvo makers. The whole point of lujvo is to cover
> semantic space using the limited set of devices available. The
> selection criteria for lujvo have never been restricted to those that
> a person can unpack out of context and from the elements alone (note
> the ambiguity of the underlying tanru for one thing, as well as the
> mass of metaphorical lujvo of yore). 

I would like examples of these 'metaphorical lujvo of yore' that
actually got used in conversation, or in *original* lojbanic works.

If said lujvo wasn't used in either of those cases, I really don't care
about it in the slightest, to be honest.

> A good lujvo is generally -- and loosely speaking -- one that is seen
> as apt when it is understood, which need not be when it is first heard
> or even when it is first analysed in the absence of understanding. 

In your opinion. I stridently disagree.

> So your proposed test is irrelevant.

In your opinion. I stridently disagree.

> <<
> If a lujvo can't pass such a basic test of sanity, dammit, it's a
> *shitty* lujvo!
> >>
> This seems a rather severe judgment on something like ninety percent
> of the inherited Lojban vocabulary. 

Again, examples. Examples that actually got used in conversation,
preferrably, and were understood.

-Robin

-- 
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ BTW, I'm male, honest.
le datni cu djica le nu zifre .iku'i .oi le so'e datni cu to'e te pilno
je xlali -- RLP http://www.lojban.org/