From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Sep 10 15:02:02 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 10 Sep 2002 22:02:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 35967 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2002 22:02:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2002 22:02:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2002 22:02:01 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17ot57-0007S0-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:02:01 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17ot4a-0007RQ-00; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:01:28 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rlpowell by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17ot4T-0007RH-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:01:21 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:01:21 -0700 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: word for "www" (was: Archive location.) Message-ID: <20020910220121.GX6798@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <3f.11549973.2aafb018@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3f.11549973.2aafb018@aol.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 1058 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Tue, Sep 10, 2002 at 04:29:12PM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/10/2002 1:43:16 PM Central Daylight Time, > xod@thestonecutters.net writes: > Robin: > << > I don't particularily find 'tradition' relevant in this case, but can I > get some examples? > >> > > Well, I would assume that accepted lujvo must have some relevance to > any test being proposed for good lujvo. If most did not pass, then > the test is suspect at least. Given the limited history of actual conversational usage of lojban, I don't agree. Come to the IRC channel some time, where actual conversations occur in lojban in real time. You won't see many lujvo, I'll tell you that right now. > << > OK. I don't have any serious arguments that the web qualifies as a > cukta. I still think ralcku is a bad lujvo. If you're not interested > in stating your opinion on whether a lujvo needs to be meaningful or > not, then I guess I can't force you to do so, but I would like to > point out that you know where to find English. > >> > > Wow! Nice move! Ignoratio elenchi, of course, but smoothly done. Of > course lujvo have to be meaningful; they are words in a language after > all. What you mean (not) to say is that the meaning of a compound > word has to be wholly or almost recoverable from the meanings of its > components in isolation. The unqualified Lojban answer is "No," even > if it rejects metaphors. The fact is that tanru, which underlie > lujvo, are ambiguous big time. From all of those possible meanings, a > lujvo picks exactly one and there is nothing in the components to say > which one it is; that is the free act of a creator. On the basis of > the lujvo, we can reconstruct the tanru and from that get some notion > (almost certainly incomplete) of the sorts of things the whole might > mean and we can, with a little contextual help, perhaps get that range > down quite a bit. But to hit the right one -- without a lot of > context -- is largely chance and certainly is not a part of what is > needed for a good (or even a boring) lujvo. I'm repeating this simply because it's pretty well written. Starting with the 5th sentence anyways. I'm not sure I have a good answer to that, beyond the fact that I don't see even a "blanu zdani" == "I had a dog that once got covered in blue paint when I lived in that house" type of connection between "ralju cukta" and "the world wide web". I'll think about this more. -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ BTW, I'm male, honest. le datni cu djica le nu zifre .iku'i .oi le so'e datni cu to'e te pilno je xlali -- RLP http://www.lojban.org/