From ragnarok@pobox.com Tue Sep 10 17:49:37 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: raganok@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 11 Sep 2002 00:49:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 98711 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2002 00:49:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2002 00:49:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 00:49:36 -0000 Received: from Craig [209.42.200.29] by intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A32245D90040; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:49:38 -0400 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] How would you translate this? Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:49:37 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Declude-Sender: raganok@intrex.net [209.42.200.29] X-eGroups-From: "Craig" From: "Craig" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >> >But, can Lojban play this trick at all? >> >>In Sindarin, it actually has "friend" as mellon, rather than vellon, the >>form it would take if it were to be the object of the verb - meaning that >>it >>is only a little bit cleaner than the English. Lojban, however, would use: >> >>ko cusku doi pendo = speak, friend >>ko cusku zo pendo = say "friend" >Are you saying that Lojban's d-i vs. z is much cleaner than >Sindarin m vs. v? The English distinction is also very clean, >be it in writing or in speech. I have no idea why I included the "however". >>This would have to be about an order of magnitude above "ractu cafmi'a" if >>anyone can come up with an answer. >It seems to me that there is no problem at all. I found the >passage. The inscription itself is not ambiguous. The first >time Gandalf mistranslates it and says {ko cusku doi pendo} >Later he corrects himself and says "the translation should >have been" {ko cusku zo pendo}. Where is the difficulty? You're right! I had been remembering the movie version, which wildly distorts that scene. Translating the sceenplay would be harder.