From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Sep 10 18:27:33 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 11 Sep 2002 01:27:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 25906 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2002 01:27:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2002 01:27:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 01:27:33 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17owI1-0000VR-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:27:33 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17owHt-0000V9-00; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:27:25 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17owHm-0000V0-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:27:18 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8B1WbwD001575 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:32:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g8B1Wb0x001574 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:32:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:32:37 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Archive location. Message-ID: <20020911013237.GB931@allusion.net> References: <176.e40fb19.2aaf7262@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="XF85m9dhOBO43t/C" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <176.e40fb19.2aaf7262@aol.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 1085 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 10, 2002 at 12:05:54PM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/9/2002 6:55:22 PM Central Daylight Time,=20 > lojban-out@lojban.org writes: >=20 > << > > I'd just prefer that "balcukta" doesn't become the generally-used lujvo > > for "web" (because it sucks much). (I guess tend to prefer more litera= l > > lujvo when possible...). > > >> >=20 > The long tradition has been for creative non-literal lujvo -- despite the= =20 > possibilities of cultural bias that that contains. This case does not se= em=20 > to be terribly creative -- and there are a lot of dissimilarities to book= s=20 > that seems to cut it off. {balcukta} looks more like an encyclopedia tha= n=20 > the Web. (The long practice has been for literalistic compunds modified = by=20 > length and complexity considerations.) The lujvo in the lujvo list are almost entirely literal... In fact, I don't believe I've seen a single figurative one from it yet, and this is the source for all my lujvo needs (I think one-off inventions of lujvo are generally not worth it; or at least i'm not fast enough with it for real conversations, and I don't desire the meaning of my utterances to be changed after the fact when that lujvo gets a real, assigned, dictionary definition). Culling things out for length is good; starting with metaphorical crud that only works based on interpreting things in an english context is not. All pe'i, of course. P.S. The big problem here is of course the pithy definition of cukta. We know we don't need paper (i.e. the online copy of the refgram is still a cukta, a pdf document could be a cukta, a story carved on wood could still be a cukta), but beyond that all we know is "book". (Not to fault lei finti be le gi'uste or anything; but some clarifications on word meanings are needed in some places) --=20 Jordan DeLong fracture@allusion.net --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9fp00DrrilS51AZ8RAlajAKCR5xrd6F+H45TLGX8m0HSmkDaw9QCeKc+Y dbKSUmzHo+/0grrT8wp5oCo= =6Dym -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C--