From pycyn@aol.com Fri Sep 13 09:07:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 13 Sep 2002 16:07:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 54844 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2002 16:07:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2002 16:07:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m09.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.164) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2002 16:07:42 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id r.90.2bc4f318 (4584) for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <90.2bc4f318.2ab36749@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:07:37 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: word for "www" (was: Archive location.) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_90.2bc4f318.2ab36749_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_90.2bc4f318.2ab36749_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/12/2002 5:30:08 PM Central Daylight Time, a.rosta@lycos.co.uk writes: << > Literalistic lujvo are good -- things like footfinger = toe, > handshoe = glove. >> Note that these would not be literalistic within the meaning of the act. << Note that whereas "brode broda" has an infinitude of possible meanings, "brode zei broda" has exactly one, determinate, meaning. >> Yes, {zei} constructions are equivalent to lujvo. The point is that there is no clearcut way to figure out which meaning they have from all the possibilites of the tanru << But things like selbroda = se broda are an abomination. If I see "se broda" if have to consult the lexical entry for "broda" to see what the phrase means, but if I see "selbroda" I have to consult the lexical entry for "selbroda" -- the very fact of using the lujvo implies that the meaning is NOT "se broda". >> Hey, nice point that last one: {se broda}, after all, is not a tanru and is already a different predicate from {broda}. I would say that {selbroda} really only has a role to play as a further component in a lujvo, not as a lujvo in its own right. << Zipfean shortening is not a sufficient reason for replacing a phrase with a lujvo, since (a) phrases and lujvo aren't semantically equivalent, and (b) there is in general no mechanism available in Lojban for Zipfean shortenings (i.e. no mechanism for shortening high-frequency word strings). >> Amen. Lujvo are for new meanings, period. --part1_90.2bc4f318.2ab36749_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/12/2002 5:30:08 PM Central Daylight Time, a.rosta@lycos.co.uk writes:

<<

Literalistic lujvo are good -- things like footfinger = toe,
handshoe = glove.

>>
Note that these would not be literalistic within the meaning of the act.

<<
Note that whereas "brode broda" has an infinitude
of possible meanings, "brode zei broda" has exactly one, determinate,
meaning.
>>
Yes, {zei} constructions are equivalent to lujvo. The point is that there is no clearcut way to figure out which meaning they have from all the possibilites of the tanru

<<
But things like selbroda = se broda are an
abomination. If I see "se broda" if have to consult the lexical
entry for "broda" to see what the phrase means, but if I see
"selbroda" I have to consult the lexical entry for "selbroda"
-- the very fact of using the lujvo implies that the meaning
is NOT "se broda".
>>
Hey, nice point that last one: {se broda}, after all, is not a tanru and is already a different predicate from {broda}. I would say that {selbroda} really only has a role to play as a further component in a lujvo, not as a lujvo in its own right.

<<
Zipfean shortening is not a sufficient reason for replacing a
phrase with a lujvo, since (a) phrases and lujvo aren't semantically
equivalent, and (b) there is in general no mechanism available
in Lojban for Zipfean shortenings (i.e. no mechanism for shortening
high-frequency word strings).
>>
Amen. Lujvo are for new meanings, period. --part1_90.2bc4f318.2ab36749_boundary--