From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sat Sep 14 16:31:31 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 14 Sep 2002 23:31:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 79847 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2002 23:31:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2002 23:31:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.127) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2002 23:31:31 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:31:31 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.7 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:31:31 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: RE: [lojban] Re: I like chocolate Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:31:31 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2002 23:31:31.0383 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB23FC70:01C25C46] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.7] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la and cusku di'e >If you asked me out of the blue how to say "that is a picture of >a boa", I'd offer {ta pixra lo ka'e sincrboa}, assuming that the >possible-worlds construal of the ka'e-series cmavo, rather than >the capability construal. (I.e. {lo ka'e sincrboa} = "that which >in some world is a boa" & not "that which in this world is >capable of being a boa".) I think that works, too, but it doesn't invalidate the other method. >I don't see that this would generalize to liking chocolate, but >I guess I'm wondering whether {lo'e} is being used as a panacea >to disparate or at least separately soluble problems. They are separately solvable, English doesn't deal with all of them in the same way: sometimes it uses "a", sometimes "the", sometimes the plural. Maybe we should approach this from a different perspective. Given {lo'e broda} as a way to insert the intension of {lo'i broda} into a selbri place, what is the resulting meaning? This is not the same as saying that the intension becomes the argument, since I don't want to make a claim about the intension, le ka ce'u broda. >I admit I had understood {zu'i} as pc does. If it doesn't >get used much, it would be because it could generally be >left implicit (because it's guessable, or insufficiently >informative). Something like "She smoked hash and he >smoked zu'i[=tobacco]" would be an example of an unusual >context where zu'i needs to be explicit. I had understood that meaning as well until someone suggested it for generic "one", and it made so much sense to me and found it so much more useful that I'm trying it out. >As for the example above, what's wrong with > > i fa'a le sirji crane na ku ka'e ku da klama lo'e darno mutce >= i fa'a le sirji crane da na ka'e klama lo'e darno mutce >= i fa'a le sirji crane no mu'ei ku da klama lo'e darno mutce >= i fa'a le sirji crane da no mu'ei klama lo'e darno mutce > >? It has the quantifier of {da} within the scope of the negation, so that I can't continue talking about the same "one" in the next sentence. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com