From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Mon Sep 16 08:12:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 16 Sep 2002 15:12:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 85681 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 15:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2002 15:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 15:12:51 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:40:00 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:12:12 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:11:50 +0100 To: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I like chocolate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810630 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin pc: #jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: #<< #>Having a delusion is coverd by the usually safe {mi viska li'i sincrboa} # #I suppose you mean {se li'i}, "I'm a visual experiencer of #something being a boa". #>> #No, I meant {li'i} though I left out the {le} . Apparently the meaning ha= s=20 #changed since the word was created by someone who lived primarily in a=20 #disembodied experiental mode. It hasn't changed its meaning AFAIK. It's just that "viska lo li'i" means "see an experience", not "have an experience of seeing". That doesn't mean there's no way to say "have the experience of seeing", though. #<< #>Using {tu'a} does not literally change the level of abstraction, since #>everything is on the same level in Lojban. # #I think {fasnu} and {dacti} are not synonymous. To that extent #at least nu-things are not at the same level as sofa-things. #>> #{mlatu} and {gerku} aren't synonymous either -- which is on the higher lev= el=20 #of abstaction? IMO, the Lojban technical term "abstraction" is primarily grammatical rather than semantic -- an event is indeed no more abstract than=20 a participant in an event. So really "abstraction" just means "selmaho NU". {tu'a ko'a} is therefore an abbreviation for {le su'u ko'a co'e}, no more and no less.=20 --And.