From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Sep 16 17:45:36 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 17 Sep 2002 00:45:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 64048 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2002 00:45:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2002 00:45:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2002 00:45:35 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17r6W7-000843-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:47:03 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17r6VZ-00083f-00; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:46:29 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.intrex.net ([209.42.192.250] helo=intrex.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17r6VW-00083W-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:46:26 -0700 Received: from Craig [209.42.200.29] by intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AB06CA9701BA; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:44:54 -0400 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] taiku ? Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:44:53 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <02091620361302.14702@neofelis> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Declude-Sender: raganok@intrex.net [209.42.200.29] X-archive-position: 1258 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: raganok@intrex.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: "Craig" From: "Craig" Reply-To: raganok@intrex.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out >> > So, say we have a bunch of story text, followed by: >> > >> > no'i taiku mi klama >> > >> > Apparently the colloquial translation is something like: >> > >> > "And so, I went.". >> > >> > This makes absolutely *no* sense to me. Really. None at all. >> >> I think it means, "And, like, I went", on the assumption that free-standing >> "like" in English sentences can be translated by "tai" ("as a form of >> something-unspecified). >I would translate "And so, I went" as ".isemu'ibo mi klama" or ".i mu'iku mi >klama", perhaps substituting one of the other becauses as appropriate. "taiku >mi klama" means "In that manner I went", or something like that. Freestanding >"like" I don't know how to translate; I'm not even sure what it means. My >best guess is that it just means "y". As a member of the generation that uses this like: It is not actually freestanding - a grammar has evolved of when it is and is not used. This is fairly permissive, but there exist contexts where a like cannot be inserted. As for the translation, it is not like "y" because it does not always imply any kind of hesitation (we still use um). When it appears at the beginning of a sentence, it tends to indicate that the sentence is simply an example of a larger point. Otherwise, it is more likely to show up when recounting events which the speaker has merely heard about: "I like, went to the store" would be unlikely (though not unheard of), whereas "He/she like, went to the store" would not.