From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Wed Sep 18 00:03:39 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 18 Sep 2002 07:03:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 88548 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2002 07:03:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2002 07:03:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2002 07:03:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2002 07:03:38 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 07:03:36 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: carolingianosity Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200209172146.RAA06165@mail2.reutershealth.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2056 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "A.W.T." X-Originating-IP: 212.144.144.94 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=37407270 X-Yahoo-Profile: aolung --- In lojban@y..., John Cowan wrote: > A.W.T. scripsit: >=20 > > there was no 'german' or 'french' state at that time! Carolus Magnus=20 > > (Charlesmagne), king of 'Franken' (Franconia?), >=20 > Variably "the Franks", "the Frankish kingdom", or even "the French empire= =3D=0D ". I would not agree with the latter. The 'Franken' (Franks) were just one=20 (important) tribe on the wide Germanic territory.=20 =20 > > was regarded the leader of the=20 > > Roman Empire (much later called 'Das R=F6mische Reich Deutscher Nation'= ).=3D=0D >=20 > Fair enough, but is not the Federal Republic a direct successor (in the > 5th degree) of that state? So is the Fifth Republic, to be sure. That's about the same (or similar) question raised by international law wit= =3D=0D h quite=20 a couple of different theories on who is/are the successor(s) of 'das Dritt= =3D=0D e=20 Reich' (the 'DDR' - German Democratic Republic - too, who didn't claim for = =3D=0D it ;-)=20 ?). When studying law (and still today), my opinion always was that there a= =3D=0D re/ were two - though pretty different - legal successors. =20 > BTW, here is a good page showing how everyone with any European ancestry = =3D=0D at > all is almost certainly descended from Charlemagne. I heard about this idea, maybe this is even true ;-) =20 Craig, your teacher was right, the so-called 'tausendj=E4hrige Reich' never= r=3D=0D eally=20 had been an empire, nonetheless affecting so many people's lives! Qin=20 Shihuangdi's 'empire' also didn't really survive this ruler, yet yielded im= =3D=0D mense=20 consequences on China up to our days. .aulun. _________ "Law, h=EEr n=EDn, =FA dollen i R=EEw. An=EDrach, nui l=FB, gwannad uin gwa= ith l=EDn?" (Arwen na Aragorn) "Nem, uram, m=E9g nem j=F6tt a t=E9l. Akar-e, az id=F5 el=F5tt, elmenni a n= =E9p=E9t=F5l?" "Nein, mein Gebieter, noch ist der Winter nicht gekommen. Wollt Ihr, vor der Zeit, Euer Volk verlassen?" "lu naku doi turni be mi bajecanai dunra .i .ue paunai pu'o le tertei ku do djica lenu cliva le do natmi li'u" __________ A.W. Tueting ti@fa-kuan.muc.de aolung@mac.com http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de