From nessus@free.fr Thu Sep 19 03:51:08 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: nessus@free.fr X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 19 Sep 2002 10:51:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 93947 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2002 10:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Sep 2002 10:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.19.233) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2002 10:51:08 -0000 Received: from mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.193) by mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr (6.5.007) id 3D760D7C0089DDD4 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:51:07 +0200 Received: from ftiq2awxk6 (80.9.199.161) by mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr (6.5.007) id 3D80120800457B57 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:51:07 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c25fcc$30b48820$a1c70950@ftiq2awxk6> To: References: Subject: [lojban] ka versus du'u Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:02:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Lionel Vidal" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=47678341 X-Yahoo-Profile: cmacinf la xorxes cusku di'e > {ka ce'u broda} is equivalent to {du'u ce'u broda} > There was a lot of discussion about this in the past. You can > just read {du'u ce'u} as {ka} if you like. The difference > between {du'u} and {ka} is that when no {ce'u} is made > explicit, then {ka} indicates that there is at least one > while {du'u} indicates that there is none. I don't understand (again :-) A property abstraction is not the same as a predication abstraction. (an indication of this seems to be that a useful x2 place has be given to du'u and not to ka). And on the other hand I see no reference in the book for the use of ce'u with du'u. But I do not want to trigger again a discussion you had before: maybe you could just give me a reference in the list archive. Or maybe pc wrote a summary of this discussion issues, like some others I found in the archives. mu'omi'e lioNEL