Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I like chocolate

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 04:32:50 EDT

In a message dated 9/19/2002 6:51:34 PM Central Daylight Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

<<
> >It isn't the same -- or at least has not yet
> >been shown to be.
> 
> How can it not be the same, when I am defining my {kairsisku}
> as Lojban's {sisku}?
>>
Sorry; I keep assuming you are being consistent. Your {kairsisku} applied to 
old {sisku} does not obviously give modern {sisku}, partly because modern 
{sisku}, while messy, dseems to be coherent, while {kairbroda} does not, at 
least in connection with {broda}.

<<><<
>le mi pavyseljirna zo'u mi sisku le ka ce'u du py
>lo pavyseljirna zo'u mi sisku le ka ce'u du py
>mi sisku le ka ce'u pavyseljirna
>(= mi sisku le ka lo pavyseljirna zo'u ce'u du py)
> >>
>Only the third of these is normal Lojban,

What is abnormal about the first two? They seem perfectly
reasonable to me. The one with {le'e} above would be, in
terms of official {sisku}:

mi sisku le ka le pavyseljirna zo'u ce'u du py
t does not say so, of course, because no one thought up these kinds of weird 
cases back then, but the assumption was that the property involved was a 
nuclear one, not one that derives indirectly from something else, like" being 
thought of by Frank" or "being identical to Charlie." Once the nuclear 
proeprties are in hand, I suppose we can work out how the others work, but it 
is certainly notov\bvious that they are the same.

<<
mi sisku lo pavyseljirna poi mi pensi ke'a
There is a unicorn that I am thinking about, which I seek.
This can be true only if there is such a unicorn in the world
of the utterance.
Dodge 2 (and the best reason to rethink the be-exist axis). I mean "in this 
world" as witness my not using any world shifters (assuming there are some 
agreed upon).

But again, I don't want anything in the base discussion to hang on {sisku} 
since I proably share your disgust with that predicate as now sued (but I 
think it had to be changed from the old form, which you seem to find 
acceptable. Odd!)