From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sat Sep 21 23:03:31 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 22 Sep 2002 06:03:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 40934 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2002 06:03:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2002 06:03:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.101) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2002 06:03:31 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 23:03:31 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.24 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 06:03:30 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Sets and classes Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 06:03:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2002 06:03:31.0328 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7030800:01C261FD] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.24] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la djorden cusku di'e >Would > lo ka'ejanaica'a selcmi be da >satisfy as an empty set? (I suppose you mean {jenai}.) I'm not sure whether a mathematician would approve though. Mathematical things are supposed to just be. >Anyway I'm not so sure about all this. It seems that it would be >somewhat unfortunate if we can't say "le selcmi be noda", when >there's a clear, useful interpretation of it (which I still don't >think entails "na selcmi", only "na selcmi be da"). {le selcmi be noda} can be a good way to refer to the empty set. Just as {le klama be noda} can be a good description for one who stays at home, and {le patfu be noda} can be a good description of someone who doesn't have children. But that doesn't mean that {lo selcmi be noda} is a member of {lo'i selcmi}, or that {lo klama be noda} is a member of {lo'i klama}. >Also (and back to the original thing), what about "lu'i no da" for >empty set? Yes, certainly. But saying {lu'i no da selcmi}, that is false, unless you mean {lu'i no da selcmi zi'o}. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com