From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Sep 22 08:42:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 22 Sep 2002 15:42:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 78402 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2002 15:42:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2002 15:42:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2002 15:42:50 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17t8um-0004NC-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:44:56 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17t8uE-0004Mt-00; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:44:22 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17t8uB-0004Mk-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:44:19 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8MFmaGZ074864 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:48:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g8MFmZl6074863 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:48:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:48:35 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: selbri first Message-ID: <20020922154835.GA74783@allusion.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 1482 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 08:08:44AM -0000, Viktoro wrote: > Can one put the selbri first in a sentence like the following? >=20 > dunda fi la klaudias. fe le cukta fa viktor. > Victor gives the book to Claudia. >=20 > Is that correct? Almost; You need a "la" in front of viktor. You can also do like: dunda fa la viktor. le cukta la klaudias. It's common to see word order like this sometimes as well, such as xamgu fa lenu do tavla fo la lojban. It is good that [the event of] you speak lojban. to emphasize the selbri rather than the 'subject' in x1. If you're building a sentence with bridi-tails, however, you're probably going to want at least one term in front of the selbri. > Are there other ways to put the selbri first in non-observatives? The easiest way is what you just did; you can use cmavo like 'fa' to put things into those places. Sometimes people will leave out the first place even if the sentence is sorta a non-observative, and allow the zo'e to imply the meaning. --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9jeZTDrrilS51AZ8RAjkvAKDFRnqMjUkeB+lAUFuCJ/y88gOf8QCfScQY 0FklURom+HgPav2t554h3UA= =XADi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY--