From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Mon Sep 23 05:43:09 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 23 Sep 2002 12:43:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 72196 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2002 12:43:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2002 12:43:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2002 12:43:09 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17tSaW-00008Y-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 05:45:20 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17tSZs-00008G-00; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 05:44:40 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 23 Sep 2002 05:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from com1.uclan.ac.uk ([193.61.255.3]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17tSZp-000086-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 05:44:37 -0700 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:10:14 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:42:48 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:42:17 +0100 To: lojban-list Subject: [lojban] Re: cmavo for emphasis? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline X-archive-position: 1508 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: And Rosta Reply-To: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810630 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Jay: #On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 01:26:08AM +0100, And Rosta wrote: #> Viktoro [mailto:vixcafe@yahoo.ca] #> > Are there particles for showing emphasis? #> > #> > In English, we use a stronger voice to show emphasis in sentences #> > like: #> > #> > "The *dog* bit the postman." #> > #> > "The dog bit the *postman*." #> > #> > "The dog *bit* the postman." #> > #> > How does one indicate emphasis? By word order or what? # #ba'e before the word, in all these cases. Only And's third example #would actually suggest emphasis to those using the language. The #others appear as simply being contorted. Whereas to speakers of natural languages the world over, the kind of 'contortion' used in my examples is one of the most common strategies of focus marking. It must be remembered that "those using the language" are using it at a level comparable to beginners level in natlangs, and without the advantage of models of fluent 'native-like' usage to emulate. Learning Lojban by emulating current usage is like going to learn English in, say, a ghetto in London populated by people who have immigrated from Kurdistan in the last five years. #Attitudinals could be used instead of 'ba'e' (going after the #word in question). Depending on the circumstances, anyways. # #> No single method. The one I favour is: #> #> da poi ke'a batci le mrilu prenu du le gerku #> #> da poi le gerku batci ke'a du le mrilu prenu # #Missed a 'cu'. And the 'du' is dreadful. I find it annoying that pointless prejudices, such as that in English against split infinitives, have taken root in Lojban culture too. Such a prejudice is that against {du}. --And.