From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Sep 23 09:07:33 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 23 Sep 2002 16:07:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 41326 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2002 16:07:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2002 16:07:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2002 16:07:33 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17tVmL-0002kT-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:09:45 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17tVll-0002dp-00; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:09:09 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17tVle-0002d1-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:09:02 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8NGDJGZ088218 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:13:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g8NGDJow088217 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:13:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:13:19 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: cmavo for emphasis? Message-ID: <20020923161319.GA88109@allusion.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 1525 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 01:42:17PM +0100, And Rosta wrote: > Jay: > #On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 01:26:08AM +0100, And Rosta wrote: > #> Viktoro [mailto:vixcafe@yahoo.ca]=20 > #> > Are there particles for showing emphasis? > #> >=20 > #> > In English, we use a stronger voice to show emphasis in sentences=20 > #> > like: > #> >=20 > #> > "The *dog* bit the postman." > #> >=20 > #> > "The dog bit the *postman*." > #> >=20 > #> > "The dog *bit* the postman." > #> >=20 > #> > How does one indicate emphasis? By word order or what? > # > #ba'e before the word, in all these cases. Only And's third example > #would actually suggest emphasis to those using the language. The > #others appear as simply being contorted. >=20 > Whereas to speakers of natural languages the world over, the kind > of 'contortion' used in my examples is one of the most common strategies > of focus marking.=20 Thankfully it is not the strategy used by lojban, however. Neither is using a stronger voice. > It must be remembered that "those using the language" are using it at > a level comparable to beginners level in natlangs, and without the > advantage of models of fluent 'native-like' usage to emulate. > Learning Lojban by emulating current usage is like going to learn > English in, say, a ghetto in London populated by people who have > immigrated from Kurdistan in the last five years. This is irrelevant. You can ignore ba'e if you want, but it is the *only* way to actually emph words. Varied word order will make people pay attention to different aspects of your sentence, but it doesn't allow for saying the same sentence with different emph (as the OP clearly wanted). --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9jz2dDrrilS51AZ8RAkRLAJwMpNdcmV9h4qOd5CMhAU06SB7GHACgxFU+ 24G+Wa2uBxVTxu0C6cWNQN8= =tNmn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV--