From opoudjis@optushome.com.au Tue Sep 24 08:39:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: opoudjis@optushome.com.au X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 24 Sep 2002 15:39:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 45988 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2002 15:39:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Sep 2002 15:39:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail025.syd.optusnet.com.au) (210.49.20.147) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2002 15:39:16 -0000 Received: from optushome.com.au (c17180.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.155.40]) by mail025.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g8OFdFF04619 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:39:15 +1000 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:39:14 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: rau To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) From: Nick Nicholas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90350612 X-Yahoo-Profile: opoudjis Like the list needed yet another instance of an ambiguously defined cmavo... The What Is Lojban brochure speaks of being "enoughth in line" to get a ticket for a movie. In private email (which I've posted as errata, and am now working through), Arnt complains: > *** (Difficult-to-fix issues) "and one can talk of being "enough-th in > line" for tickets to a sellout movie" Now wait a minute. Is there any > other ways in Lojban to number the places in a line than to call the > foremost number 1? In that case, one would want to have a *small > enough* number in line, instead of *large enough*, as I think "raumoi" > must mean. Jorge responds: > ****Interesting issue! I think ''rau'' should be able to mean "few > enough" in contexts where fewer is more significant. I can't think of > a case where this would cause problems. --[xorxes] The cmavo itself is defined merely as "enough; subjective" In accordance with the supplicatory model: If Lojbab wrote this text, then Lojbab must have intended "rau" to mean 'small enough' as well as 'large enough'. The formal way of stating this without being braindamaged is: "rau" indicates a quantity which is satisfactory for the purposes of the perspective-holder in context [not necessarily the speaker], as they can be inferred from context. Its reference is not constrained to being a ceiling value ('large enough value'), it may be a floor ('small enough value') or a median value, according to context. (This is the kind of thing I'd like to see in a mini-dict, btw.) Kai san swqhkan t' akriba piota, N N O nickn@unimelb.edu.au kai san plhsiaze pia h wra tesseres, I I L http://www.opoudjis.net ston erwta doqhkan eutuxeis. C C A Universtity of Melbourne K.P.Kabafhs, _Duo Neoi, 23 Ews 24 Etwn_ K H S *Ceci n'est pas un .sig*