From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Fri Sep 27 08:57:56 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 27 Sep 2002 15:57:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 24710 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2002 15:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2002 15:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailbox-14.st1.spray.net) (212.78.202.114) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2002 15:57:55 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (unknown [213.121.71.237]) by mailbox-14.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C6D3B49FBF for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 17:57:53 +0200 (DST) To: Subject: RE: [lojban] paroi ro mentu Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:59:30 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Jorge: > What do you all think of this: > > le plini cu mulcarna paroi ro mentu > > 1- Is {mulcarna} good for "x1 makes a full turn around x2 > in direction x3"? > > 2- The problem with {paroi ro mentu} is that the quantifiers > are in the wrong order. The alternative {ro da poi mentu zo'u > le plini cu mulcarna paroi da} is too longwinded and requires > forethought. Any ideas? Looking at it purely as a grammatical problem, I don't think you can justifiably complain about {ro da poi mentu zo'u le plini cu mulcarna paroi da} requiring forethought. That's an almost inevitable consequence of an unambiguous logical language. (I can imagine a logical language with scope going in the other direction, but that would be more difficult.) As for longwindedness, that's an inherent property of Lojban -- it was not designed to be concise or to make longwindedness avoidable. Looking at it as a semantic problem, what you want to say is "The planet revolves, and for each month during which the planet revolves, it revolves once", and not "During every month, the planet revolves once". {ca ro mentu poi le plini ca ke'a mulcarna cu pa roi go'i} is about the best I can come up with today. Maybe {ro da poi ke'a mentu zo'u le plini cu mulcarna go ca da gi pa roi ku}? No. {ca ro nu le plini cu mulcarna ku pa mentu -elapses}? That seems more promising. --And.