From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sat Sep 28 15:28:34 2002
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: paroi ro mentu
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 22:28:33 +0000
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From: "Jorge Llambias" <jjllambias@hotmail.com>
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la djorden cusku di'e

> > baku zo'u ge mi klama la paris gi mi klama la romas
>
>This works in this case, but as we discussed it's not something you
>can generally do unless you move every other tense (and in the paroi
>case, move everything with a quantifier) into the prenex also to
>preserve order.

Of course, but exactly the same happens with {pa prenu}. You
can't treat it separately from all other things that have
relevant scope.

> > ta'eku mi klama la paris e la romas
> >
> > This is:
> >
> > ta'eku zo'u ge mi klama la paris gi mi klama la romas
> > Typically, I go both to Paris and to Rome.
>
>I agree with the first line (though, as I said above it doesn't work
>in the general case without moving other shit into the prenex also)

Of course, everything with scope that comes before it must move
to the prenex before it.

>but I think your translation to english is bad. I think the sentence
>means the translation you give for the next sentence. To get the
>sentence you said, I think you would need either
> ta'eku mi klama la paris. jo'u la romas.
>or
> ta'eku mi klama la paris. joi la romas.

Ok. That's a possibility. You're saying that tags never
have scope over other sumti. Then when we apply this to
{paroiku}:

(1a) paroiku mi klama la paris e la romas

expands to:

(1b) paroiku mi klama la paris ije paroiku mi klama la romas

And:

(2a) paroiku mi klama ro le re tcadu

expands to:

(2b) roda voi tcadu zo'u paroiku mi klama da
For each of the (two) cities, I once went to it.

Also:

(3) paroi le pavdei e le reldei mi klama la paris

will expand to:

(3a) paroi le pavdei mi klama la paris
ije paroi le reldei mi klama la paris

And similarly:

(4) paroi ro le re djedi mi klama la paris

will expand as:

(4a) roda voi djedi zo'u paroi da mi klama la paris

Q.E.D.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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