From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sat Sep 28 17:20:15 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 29 Sep 2002 00:20:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 74623 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2002 00:20:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2002 00:20:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.63) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2002 00:20:15 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:20:14 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.55 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 00:20:14 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: On what there isn't Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 00:20:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2002 00:20:15.0005 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB89CCD0:01C2674D] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.55] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la pycyn cusku di'e ><< > > Thus, though Holmes might have the proprety of being knighted > > by Queen Victoria, Queen Victoria does not have the property of >having > > knighted Holmes (though her surrogate would). > > i la xolmyz cu se nolgau lo'e glico nolraitru > i ku'i no glico nolraitru cu nolgau la xolmyz > >> >I'd stick with {la viktorias}, since bringing in {lo'e} -- whatever that >means -- introduces a whole range of problems which this shift is designed >to >help solve, not to have incorporated into it. I was just pointing out the parallels with my use of {lo'e}. I didn't use the name because unfortunetely Lojban doesn't treat names as predicates, but I could do it with {me}: i la xolmyz cu se nolgau lo'e me la viktorias i ku'i la viktorias na nolgau la xolmyz >In particular, the Victoria we >are talking about is the familiar one, not one of her surrogates in a book >or >elsewhere; Correct. That's why I can only bring up the property of being her (which is what lo'e does, but using that property, not referring to that property), and not herself. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx