From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Sep 29 09:04:08 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 29 Sep 2002 16:04:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 44834 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2002 16:04:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2002 16:04:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2002 16:04:08 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17vgay-0004Fv-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:07:00 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17vgaQ-0004Fc-00; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:06:26 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17vgaM-0004FT-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:06:22 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8TGAMGZ051302; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:10:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g8TGAMqX051301; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:10:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:10:22 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Cc: And Rosta Subject: [lojban] Re: sticky hypothesis Message-ID: <20020929161022.GC50774@allusion.net> References: <002601c267cf$639b2b80$d7c70950@ftiq2awxk6> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="uXxzq0nDebZQVNAZ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002601c267cf$639b2b80$d7c70950@ftiq2awxk6> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 1716 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --uXxzq0nDebZQVNAZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 05:45:43PM +0200, Lionel Vidal wrote: > And: > >Despite much usage to the contrary, > > it is not really a way to state conditional meaning. How about if > > you give an English example of what you would like to say, so we > > can get an idea of what you're after? >=20 > Ok. Here it is: >=20 > ..... Now let's suppose the machine writes only true statements. This > means that ...... It implies that.....Furthermore.... > [end of the hypothesis scope, indirectly expressed in english with the > following] But this is not what we're really after.... and so..... Ahh this is definitely a good place to use tu'e tu'u. [...] > xorxes: > >I think you want {ru'a} not {da'i} for this. >=20 > That may well be. I am not sure at all about the difference > between what CLL calls an assumption (for ru'a) and an > hypothesis. But as CLL tends to make {ru'a} close to {e'u}, > I would rather go for {da'i} in may case. I think this is most certainly a proper use for {da'i}. Much of the anti-da'i-ism seems to be largely caused by a sort of agenda to get one's own useless experimental cmavo to be used (in this case mu'ei). > >Since {ru'acu'i} and {ru'anai} seem to be undefined, > >how about: > >ru'a: hypothesis > >ru'acu'i: dependents of hypothesis > >ru'anai: end hypothesis >=20 > I like it! But would that mean I 'll have to repeat {ru'acu'i} in all > bridis dependent of hypothesis? I guess yes, and that is a pain, > compared to a sticky tag. I don't like this. ru'anai doesn't end the hypothesis, it says that whatever it is attached to is not assumption. Text scope was invented for this; you should use a modal tag + tu'e ... tu'u for the whole block, pe'i. The book doesn't support this (ab)use of ru'a. mu'o --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --uXxzq0nDebZQVNAZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9lyXtDrrilS51AZ8RArbwAKCHUgWjYzZ3GYny2PfKhtUQpzKWpgCfY3Nt SbRCvM+5xoBJAUQsXZdx4S8= =wDYo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --uXxzq0nDebZQVNAZ--