Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: paroi ro mentu

From: "Jorge Llambias" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 16:07:05 +0000

la djorden cusku di'e

>You're breaking the same rules again. "paroi ro le re djedi" is a
>single term. You can't just bring parts of it forward, all of it
>must go if you want to keep the same meaning. You could do
> paroi roda voi djedi zo'u mi klama la paris.

{paroi ro le re djedi} is a single term as much as
{paroi le pavdei e le reldei} is a single term. Whatever rule
applies to one (scopewise) should apply to the other.

The rule I think is the Right Thing is that {e}/{ro} have
scope over {pa} in that example.

>It's quite clear to me that either convention for tag+sumti scopes
>can be delt with consistently, and the book doesn't say which is
>right. The book does say thing go left-to-right for terms, but
>since these are in the same term in the parse it's not a definite
>answer. I think left-to-right makes most sense, however, because it
>seems to be what would be expected when using a tag which has a
>quantifier in it, since everything else is left-to-right.

Notice however that it's not just tags with explicit PA that are
involved. For example {ze'a ro mentu} with my interpretation says
that the event happens in each medium-length minute interval. With
the other interpretation it says that the event happens in the
medium interval consisting of all minutes (surely not very medium-
length).

>This might be something that is worth gathering usage statistics
>on PAroi+sumti or just plain tag+sumti for all tags which can have
>quantifiers (re'u, etc). If people have been mainly using it with
>right-to-left, then since the book isn't definite here we would
>probably go that way, but if not the normal futher-left-gets-wider-scope
>rule seems to make sense.

To me that rule does not make sense in this case because it forces
a kind of massification of the quantified sumti, which when wanted
should be done by other means.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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