From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Sep 29 09:13:10 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 29 Sep 2002 16:13:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 81752 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2002 16:13:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2002 16:13:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2002 16:13:10 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17vgji-0004JE-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:16:02 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17vgj8-0004Iw-00; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:15:26 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17vgj5-0004In-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:15:23 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8TGJXGZ051673 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:19:33 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g8TGJRGX051668 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:19:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:19:27 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: paroi ro mentu Message-ID: <20020929161927.GA51631@allusion.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5vNYLRcllDrimb99" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 1719 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --5vNYLRcllDrimb99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 04:07:05PM +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote: > la djorden cusku di'e > >You're breaking the same rules again. "paroi ro le re djedi" is a > >single term. You can't just bring parts of it forward, all of it > >must go if you want to keep the same meaning. You could do > > paroi roda voi djedi zo'u mi klama la paris. >=20 > {paroi ro le re djedi} is a single term as much as > {paroi le pavdei e le reldei} is a single term. Whatever rule > applies to one (scopewise) should apply to the other. Of course... > The rule I think is the Right Thing is that {e}/{ro} have > scope over {pa} in that example. That is of course the whole discussion. My viewpoint is that the paroi scopes over the pavdei, which scopes over the reldei, etc. > >It's quite clear to me that either convention for tag+sumti scopes > >can be delt with consistently, and the book doesn't say which is > >right. The book does say thing go left-to-right for terms, but > >since these are in the same term in the parse it's not a definite > >answer. I think left-to-right makes most sense, however, because it > >seems to be what would be expected when using a tag which has a > >quantifier in it, since everything else is left-to-right. >=20 > Notice however that it's not just tags with explicit PA that are > involved. For example {ze'a ro mentu} with my interpretation says > that the event happens in each medium-length minute interval. With > the other interpretation it says that the event happens in the > medium interval consisting of all minutes (surely not very medium- > length). Good point. I don't know what ze'a means for sure, but maybe this can settle the issue for us if we can find an example in the book which chooses one or the other. [...] --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --5vNYLRcllDrimb99 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9lygPDrrilS51AZ8RAgL6AKC8+mUxrjpPj/FnyHjZeZ/UST07NgCeL3IR rOWW+11UBMSbCO5QdJbUAzk= =Geoz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5vNYLRcllDrimb99--