From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Mon Sep 30 07:21:52 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 30 Sep 2002 14:21:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 65884 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2002 14:21:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2002 14:21:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2002 14:21:50 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:49:32 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:22:28 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:21:54 +0100 To: lojban Subject: RE: [lojban] MELBI COI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810630 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin >>> Jorge Llambias 09/29/02 10:53pm >>> #la and cusku di'e #> > Right. "Unido" is more than {pamei} though, because it suggests #> > that it is the result of something (the result of uniting), not #> > just the present state. {poi ba'o pamei binxo}, I guess. Of course #> > it is not always possible to capture every nuance in a translation. #> #>Does "unido" mean that to you as a spanish speaker? Be#cause to me #>it seems that it is the state of being in union that makes it #>impossible to be conquered (or divided, in American). It doesn't #>seem to matter whether this state is the result of uniting. In #>English, en-participles are not necessarily resultative. # #I don't know. I'm thinking of the slogan "el pueblo, unido, jamas #sera vencido": "The people, united, will never be defeated". #Maybe the problem is that I've always understood it as an #unrealized aspiration and not as a description of a state of #affairs. I don't get the same from "Reino Unido", "Estados Unidos", #"Naciones Unidas", etc. I too was thinking of "el pueblo, unido, jamas sera vencido"; I was so chuffed with how Melbi Coi came out, that I thought of having a go at some of the other classics. We already have a couple of translations of "No man is an island", but it would be good to add the songs. And it seems to me that the necessary condition for the people to resist defeat is that they *be* united, not that they have *become* united. Even if they always were united, right from the outset, they would still never be defeated. --And.