Subject: RE: [lojban] MELBI COI

From: And Rosta <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:21:54 +0100

>>> Jorge Llambias <[email-masked]> 09/29/02 10:53pm >>>
#la and cusku di'e
#> > Right. "Unido" is more than {pamei} though, because it suggests
#> > that it is the result of something (the result of uniting), not
#> > just the present state. {poi ba'o pamei binxo}, I guess. Of course
#> > it is not always possible to capture every nuance in a translation.
#>
#>Does "unido" mean that to you as a spanish speaker? Be#cause to me
#>it seems that it is the state of being in union that makes it
#>impossible to be conquered (or divided, in American). It doesn't
#>seem to matter whether this state is the result of uniting. In
#>English, en-participles are not necessarily resultative.
#
#I don't know. I'm thinking of the slogan "el pueblo, unido, jamas
#sera vencido": "The people, united, will never be defeated".
#Maybe the problem is that I've always understood it as an
#unrealized aspiration and not as a description of a state of
#affairs. I don't get the same from "Reino Unido", "Estados Unidos",
#"Naciones Unidas", etc.

I too was thinking of "el pueblo, unido, jamas sera vencido"; I was
so chuffed with how Melbi Coi came out, that I thought of having
a go at some of the other classics. We already have a couple of
translations of "No man is an island", but it would be good to add
the songs.

And it seems to me that the necessary condition for the people to
resist defeat is that they *be* united, not that they have *become*
united. Even if they always were united, right from the outset, they
would still never be defeated.

--And.