From jcowan@reutershealth.com Thu Oct 03 07:55:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 3 Oct 2002 14:55:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 21121 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2002 14:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2002 14:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.reutershealth.com) (65.246.141.151) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2002 14:54:33 -0000 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05429; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200210031456.KAA05429@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:44:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: a new kind of fundamentalism To: arosta@uclan.ac.uk (And Rosta) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Cc: lojbab@lojban.org (lojbab), lojban@yahoogroups.com (lojban) In-Reply-To: from "And Rosta" at Oct 03, 2002 02:31:55 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Cowan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8122456 X-Yahoo-Profile: john_w_cowan And Rosta scripsit: > As I've said to you before, I can't make any sense of the > descriptive/prescriptive dichotomy when it is applied to an invented > language that is still in the process of coming into being. So while > I agree that Lojban is not like a natlang, it follows, pe'i, that the > descriptive/prescriptive distinction is largely vacuous. I don't grasp what you don't understand. From the viewpoint of Lojban Central looking outwards, it can do one of two things: say how people should use Lojban, or say how (in its experience) people do actually use Lojban. For Lojban Central you can substitute any other single point. I can say descriptively "And's translation of 'The People United' uses ka'enai". Or I can say prescriptively, "And ought not to use ka'enai, for the Lojban grammar does not allow it." This is really no different from the case of "'Different' is commonly completed by 'than'" vs. "'Different than' is an obnoxious barbarism." I also don't see what the completion of the enterprise has to do with it. The more incomplete the language definition, the fewer the number of prescriptive statements available. I cannot say "One ought to use 'fyt' to mean '1' in Piat", because I don't know the Piat numerals. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan http://www.reutershealth.com Charles li reis, nostre emperesdre magnes, Set anz totz pleinz ad ested in Espagnes.