Subject: [lojban] Re: a new kind of fundamentalism

From: Robert LeChevalier <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 20:15:47 -0400

At 01:44 AM 10/4/02 +0300, Robin Turner wrote:
>Lionel Vidal wrote:
>[snippet]
> >Sorry, but this is not true: there are numerous example of natlangs dramatic
> >prescriptive changes (and on scale that has nothing to do with a few cmavos
> >more or less, with a population size that has nothing to do with lojban
> >community present size, and regardless of an existing voluminous existing
> >corpus), that were consciously accepted by users on a short period.
...
>A
>speaker of a conlang is more likely to say, in the immortal words of
>Eric Cartman, "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

Important to note here is that at this point a large portion of Lojbanists 
are English speakers, and English is historically anti-academy 
prescription. There has never been much chance of English speakers 
accepting an academy telling them that the language has changed (or for 
that matter that they are "saying it wrong"). Norms in English come about 
through lots of example usage setting an example (e.g. the spread of 
British or American English overseas through educated speakers and through 
television). As long as many Lojbanists are English natives, there will be 
prejudice against academy-dictated prescription. Hence the Cartman words.

Secondly, we do not have the wherewithal to promulgate prescriptive 
changes. Large numbers of Lojbanists do not read the lists or any other 
single site, and we do not control any Lojban sites other than the official 
one which has megabytes of information. We can't control where people will 
draw their usage from, and it is more likely to be from past usage than 
from new prescription.

Finally and most importantly for one key Lojbanic purpose, linguists 
respect such usage-based norms and evolution and do not much respect 
prescriptivism. So long as prescribers have significant clout over the 
language, we will have trouble gaining respect as a language (and 
community) worthy of serious linguistic investigation. Rather, we will be 
classed with the hoards of conlangs that never stopped prescribing until 
they drove their prospective users away or forced splintering from those 
who would not accept the prescription.

lojbab

-- 
lojbab [email-masked]
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org