From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Fri Oct 04 18:41:12 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_0); 5 Oct 2002 01:41:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 46297 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2002 01:41:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2002 01:41:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2002 01:41:08 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17xdzg-0005hK-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:44:36 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17xdyn-0005go-00; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:43:41 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox-11.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.111]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17xdyV-0005g8-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:43:23 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-69-226.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.69.226]) by mailbox-11.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFA11E7AE for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 03:39:13 +0200 (MEST) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: preventing cartmanism (was: RE: Re: a new kind of fundamentalism Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:40:52 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021004090736.031e50d0@pop.east.cox.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-archive-position: 1910 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Lojbab: > At 01:14 PM 10/4/02 +0100, And Rosta wrote: > >Jay: > > > On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 01:44:27AM +0300, Robin Turner wrote: > > > > A speaker of a conlang is more likely to say, in the immortal words > > > > of Eric Cartman, "Screw you guys, I'm going home." > > > > > > Exactly. And this is what the "new fundamentalists" want to prevent. > > > >It's what we all want to prevent. How to prevent it is one of the > >themes of this thread. My view continues to be that the best > >solution is to ghettoize (to different lists and different areas > >of the wiki) the controversial activities of the various factions, > >and reserve the common forums for uncontroversial things. Lojbab > >seems to have come round to this view recently. > > Primarily because the community seems to now be robust enough that the > "ghettos" can be populated without depopulating the main list. > > I still would like to see the summary articles, but they'll likely be > solicited for JL when it restarts, even if people don't start habitually > posting summaries. I know from experience that it's very hard to do summaries. What's more feasible is to post on the wiki a proposal that (after refinement) can be endorsed by the discussants. 'Endorsement' means 'there is a consensus among jboske that it is a Good Thing or the Right Thing', not that it is any sort of official prescription. > >In other words, given that not everyone wants to play the same game, > >we should manage our affairs so that the different games can be > >played separately without infringing on the others. > > I really don't see that we are playing different games. Rather, it is a > question of data volume and relevance. Mailing lists really don't have > many filtering options. But when the volume gets too high, people tune out > from overload or sign off the list. When the volume gets too low, people > fall asleep. > > The wiki has turned out to be a better tool for working at the interest > level you want without getting bogged in excess detail (which can be shoved > off to another page) (Nora likes reading it more than the list). But it > isn't nearly as easy to follow in real time as a mailing list. I agree with all of this, except that I do think some Naturalists and some Engineers are playing different games. --And.