From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Oct 05 08:45:02 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_0); 5 Oct 2002 15:45:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 4266 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2002 15:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2002 15:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2002 15:45:01 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17xrAP-0005GU-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:48:33 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17xr9p-0005GC-00; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:47:57 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17xr9l-0005G3-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:47:53 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g95FptGZ010921 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:51:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g95FptH2010920 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:51:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:51:55 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: a new kind of fundamentalism Message-ID: <20021005155155.GA10703@allusion.net> References: <3D9CC5A7.2080901@bilkent.edu.tr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 1918 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 02:51:51PM +0100, And Rosta wrote: [...] > > Personally, I have enough trouble keeping track of the the grammar tha= t=20 > > exists to even start eploring its more rarified possibilities,=20 > > and I=20 > > have never found a concept that I was unable to coin a lujvo for=20 > > (admittedly, some of those lujvo were pretty long - but the same applie= d=20 > > when I tried to translate "descriptive fallacy" into Turkish). >=20 > The (non)availability of semantically equivalent lujvo is hardly ever a=20 > criterion for evaluating the utility of cmavo. You have done little to support this viewpoint except state it. I don't agree with it. Why propose a new cmavo (which have a much more limited remaning morphological space) when a lujvo or fu'ivla will do the same function? If later (i.e. post baseline) it is found to be an extreemly common thing to say, if there's space a cmavo could be made for it. > > On the subject of fundamentalism, the CLL is the ultimate authority on= =20 > > Lojban usage, not. The ultimate authority is the BNF grammar + the=20 > > gismu list + the cmavo list. The CLL simply exists to make this=20 > > understandable to carbon-based life-forms.=20=20 The semantics in CLL should be kept as stable as everything else. Where CLL makes errors (see the errata wiki page), we should defer to cmavyjavgi'uste and the formal grammar to clarify. > Technically, the BNF 'grammar' is more like a grammaticality-checker > than a true grammar. That is, it will tell you whether or not a > string is well-formed Lojban, but it won't tell you what it means. This is of course what a grammar is... --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9nwqbDrrilS51AZ8RAjehAJ4yZycjqMJwAI1v3smTHJqYtS/kkACgkjxG Sos8CxcFWrH0MsXTT9oSF1M= =+nDV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --45Z9DzgjV8m4Oswq--