From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Sun Oct 06 13:14:47 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_0); 6 Oct 2002 20:14:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 94634 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2002 20:14:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Oct 2002 20:14:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 2002 20:14:47 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17yHr8-0003si-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 13:18:26 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17yHpy-0003rM-00; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 13:17:14 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 06 Oct 2002 13:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox-4.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.104]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17yHpm-0003qu-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2002 13:17:03 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (m499-mp1.cvx2-a.bre.dial.ntli.net [62.253.81.243]) by mailbox-4.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0461CB88 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:12:51 +0200 (DST) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: a new kind of fundamentalism Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:14:30 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021005203929.GB13575@allusion.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-archive-position: 1953 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Jordan: > On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 09:07:51PM +0100, And Rosta wrote: > > Jay: > [...] > > > There is no reason or need for people to run around changing Lojban. > > > > There's reason to run around changing Lojban, and there's reason to > > not run around changing Lojban. I agree that brand recognition matters > > much more for an unchanging version trying to attract learners. > > So way don't you start calling your modifications by a new name? Perhaps > even "jboskebau"? You could then make any changes you want with a much > smaller amount of oposition. I do have my own engelang that I don't discuss on this list, because it would be off-topic. To lojban-related lists, I post only on lojban-related topics (barring the very very occasional item of chat). I don't try to make baseline-violating modifications to Lojban. Occasionally I point out baseline-violating alternatives, but this falls within the proper domain of lojbanology, which in turn is properly lojbanic. > > > People who want to change things, rather > > > than work out problems with ill-defined portions of Lojban, should go > > > play with Lojban2 or Andban or something, using Lojban as a base, but > > > not calling it 'Lojban'. The name is of no consequence to those parties, > > > but 'brand recognition' is key to growing the speaker base. > > > > I agree. Since the baseline was imposed, I have never tried to change > > the baseline -- at least not as far as I can recall. I've even said > > in several places that I'm opposed to officially changing the baseline. > > You have said that, yes. However, have you not also said "I am in > favour of anything that subverts the baseline, on the grounds that > I see no virtue in it except the simple fact that 99% of Lojbanists > wanted it." (From your wiki page). > > I suppose someone could've been writing there and pretending to be > you, but that just seems so much like something you would say, > despite the apparent contraditions :) You're right: it does sound like me, and was written by me. I've addressed the apparent contradiction in a reply to Jay. There are laws in Britain that I dislike, but not enough to want to emigrate, and I don't try to change them -- e.g. laws against same-sex marriage, bans on images of erect penises, laws against cannabis smoking, laws against against blasphemy. (Whether I obey the laws is a separate issue.) I feel similarly as a citizen of Lojbanistan. --And.