Subject: [lojban] Re: Why linguists might be interested in Lojban (was: RE: Re: a new kind of fundamentalism

From: Robin Turner <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 23:52:47 +0300

Invent Yourself wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Robin Turner wrote:
> 
> 
>>I imagine cognitive linguists would also find it interesting from the
>>point of metaphor. Lojban combines the explicit metaphor-making of
>>lujvo (which are not metaphorical in the common sense of the word, but
>>are in the cogling sense) with an attempt to suppress unmarked metaphor
>>(which to a mainstream cognitive linguist would be quixotic but
>>interesting).
>>
> 
> 
> Can you explain more about what Lojban is doing that seems quixotic to
> linguists? Thanks!

One thing to bear in mind in these discussions is that terms like 
"cognitive linguist" or "Chomskyan" are very vague (zo'o family 
resemblance categories?); this is why I qualified it by saying (le'e) 
"mainstream cognitive linguist"!

The reason for the word "quixotic" in this case is that most cognitive 
linguists would argue that metaphor is an integral part of language 
because it is an integral part of thought (for those who make a 
language/thought distinction at all). the interesting part would be to 
see to what extent the permitted mechanisms for metaphor could handle 
the need for metaphorical conceptualisation (essentially lujvo, gismu 
with inbuilt metaphoraical meanings {which is arguably not metaphor at 
all} and marked metaphor). My guess would be that Lojban discourse 
could remain relatively free of illegal metaphor (a lot of what comes 
under the heading of malglico or mal-whatever) so long as it was being 
used as a secondary language (especially in written form), but the more 
it became used as a primary means of commung(ication, the more naughty 
metaphors would creep in.

Another interesting focus for research would be to observe Lojban as an 
interlanguage between speakers from radically different cultures who 
conceptualise abstract ideas using different metaphors - this is pretty 
close to the Sapir-Whorf stuff Loglan was originally designed to 
investigate.

-- 
"We do not imprison ourselves with laws, or impoverish ourselves with 
money" - Iain Banks

Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Universitesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey

www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin