From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Tue Oct 08 16:25:21 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_0); 8 Oct 2002 23:25:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 57481 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2002 23:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2002 23:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2002 23:25:20 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17z3ms-0002sT-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 16:29:14 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17z3lg-0002qS-00; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 16:28:00 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 08 Oct 2002 16:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox-4.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.104]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17z3lW-0002pO-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 16:27:50 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-68-70.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.68.70]) by mailbox-4.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A49A1DA1C for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:23:24 +0200 (DST) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: Why linguists might be interested in Lojban (was: RE: Re: a new kind of fundamentalism Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:25:03 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200210082150.RAA08268@mail2.reutershealth.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-archive-position: 2001 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin John: > Robin Turner scripsit: > > > The two Lojbanisms that really caught on amongst the players > > were "mabla" (correct usage) and "le do mamta cu gerku" (incorrect, in > > canonical Lojban). > > Well, it's *false*, but that doesn't mean it doesn't communicate. When > GWB says that Iran and Iraq form part of a (transnational) axis, what he > says is surely false (they fought a 10-year war not so long ago, after all), > but it communicates something nevertheless. > > This is a great example of why I think the semantics/pragmatics split is > intellectually pernicious. Can you explain? I utterly see why. As you know, I and the rest of linguistics takes the opposite view, and rightly so, because incredible though it may seem, the distinction was not sharply drawn until Grice came along and his works circulated (in samizdat form) through linguistics, and the transformation in quality of work that resulted was incredible -- it was as though at one stroke formal linguistics had been plucked out of quicksand and placed on solid ground. I wasn't around at the time (well -- I was, but I was a child), so I make these observations on the basis of reading of ancient linguistics books and journals (something hardly any linguists do, anything more than 10 years old being consigned to oblivion). --And.