From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Oct 08 18:40:29 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_0); 9 Oct 2002 01:40:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 92676 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2002 01:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2002 01:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2002 01:40:28 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17z5te-00048w-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:44:22 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17z5sq-00048d-00; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:43:32 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17z5sb-00048U-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:43:17 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g991lAGZ047985 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:47:15 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g991l9rd047984 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:47:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:47:09 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: a new kind of fundamentalism Message-ID: <20021009014709.GA47905@allusion.net> References: <102.1c11da15.2ad49195@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <102.1c11da15.2ad49195@aol.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 2014 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 03:52:53PM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/8/2002 10:11:55 AM Central Daylight Time,=20 > lojban-out@lojban.org writes: [...] > > It wouldn't be false if the event didn't occur because it uses "le". > > I agree that the "pure emotion indicators" don't affect truth value... > I'm not sure what {le} has to do with it -- I take it that that is balanc= ed=20 > by "the event" in English: whatever it is that {le nu [bridi]} refers to= , if=20 le makes it a description... if it said "lo nu" it would claim that some such events exist, and that zo'e is happy about them... > that did not occur, some people would say taht was enough to make the who= le=20 > flse. Others would disagree and still otheres would say "It depends on=20 > context" (a totally normal Lojban situation, in short). > If the fact that they have different truth values in the same situation i= s=20 > not evidence for a semantic difference, what will count?! Such a differe= nce=20 I mean that they *mean* the same things. "Semantic difference" as you're thinking of it, sure. But "gleki leza'i broda" and ".ui broda" *mean* the same thing in a real conversation (or at least they would most of the time). Anyway this has all strayed quite far from the all-cmavo-can-be- transormed-into-brivla claim of And's that it was all originally about. --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9o4qdDrrilS51AZ8RAncCAKCCAHd/dvsHS/uNtMF8tdjYjnBpwwCgt0hQ J9HI2UTV+7CuFTQK6I4AWP0= =W9Et -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/--