From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Oct 09 08:09:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_0); 9 Oct 2002 15:09:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 31852 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2002 15:09:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2002 15:09:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2002 15:09:14 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17zIWO-00028L-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:13:12 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17zIVl-00027K-00; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:12:33 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17zIVh-000278-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:12:29 -0700 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g99FGMGZ055052 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:16:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g99FGMcA055051 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:16:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:16:22 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: [Announcement] The Alice Translation Has Moved And Changed Message-ID: <20021009151622.GA54558@allusion.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 2029 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jordan DeLong From: Jordan DeLong Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:07:32PM +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote: > la nitcion cusku di'e [...] > >You can't both be one of the team > >and appropriating the end product, even if you did do 90% of the work. > >Conversely, if there is no notion of ownership of the text, then there > >is *nothing* preventing me restoring sane punctuation to the entire > >text tomorrow. >=20 > That's the least of the problems, it's just a matter of > presentation. The work would be the same with or without dots. > (If someone does want to put the dots in though, they should put > them everywhere, not just in front of initial vowels and after > final consonants but also in the tricky places.) On the other > hand, using {ji'i} or {bi'i} (just as an example) makes a > significant difference. I don't think the idea can be that > we just keep changing them back and forth until someone gets > tired. While I don't advocate CVS-wars, I've got to say that this is an situation where it *is* simply correcting an error. "re ji'i ci" means twenty-three, where the digit "3" has been rounded. This is part of the language definition. It's not like we are talking about something which is legitimate to dispute: CLL *clearly* says what PA+ ji'i PA+ means in chapter 18. That said; you could always just fork Alice and have the "xorxes version" of the translation. There's nothing wrong with that course of action, in my opinion, and since you translated so much of it it is certainly justifiable. (Though I, for one, would still think it quite unfortunate should you choose to continue to deliberately misuse ji'i). I believe the current translation text is public domain; so anyone who wants to can fork it. If you continue to work on it as a group project though you can't expect complete control over the xe fanva. > >Not that I'd want nothing to do with a text that refuses to put dots > >before the i's anyway. The language definition allows removal of dots. I imagine a program could easily be written to add missing dots if it makes it easier for one to read. I use dots because otherwise I'd not remember to pause, and because they look nice. This isn't like ji'i where we're talking about deliberate misuse of a language feature. (The dots are excessively minor in comparison). > i ko catlu le se vasru enai le vasru .ie --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9pEhGDrrilS51AZ8RAoEqAJ4xoTzkSJmX5KiAMEvd/h4nX5ptZgCffGs1 ACntkPnSMTzzJuJKiGZbP50= =VqBm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1--