From xod@thestonecutters.net Wed Oct 09 10:46:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_0); 9 Oct 2002 17:46:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 6400 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2002 17:46:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2002 17:46:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2002 17:46:57 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17zKz2-0003aD-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:50:56 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17zKyS-0003Zf-00; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:50:20 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17zKyO-0003ZV-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:50:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g99HkHT24663 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:46:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:46:17 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Fw: Alice style and finalisation (was:The Alice Translation Has Moved And Changed) In-Reply-To: <00ae01c26fba$e2627a20$8f9fca3e@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20021009134333.S23951-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 2044 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Invent Yourself Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple .a'u .i e'o ko bau la lojban. ciksi fi mi fe le ka lu zukte fi zi'o li'u frica lu zukte fi noda li'u ce'u On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, G. Dyke wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "G. Dyke" > To: "Jorge Llambias" > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:39 PM > Subject: Re: [lojban] Alice style and finalisation (was:The Alice > Translation Has Moved And Changed) > > > > > > cu'u la xorxes > > > > > >- I also feel we should strive for some sort of logical correctness, in > > > >particular saying "zukte fi zi'o" rather than "zukte fi noda". > > > > > > > >That particular example, I now consider as correct, as it means "I > don't > > > >{zukte} because I don't have a {te zukte}", which rather acurately > > > >translates "having nothing to do". > > > > > > Yes. I'm not very happy with it, but I couldn't think of > > > anything better. > > > > As I was trying to say, this is probably a very accurate translation of > the > > intension of the English. People who have nothing to do, usually do > nothing. > > > > > >But in general, such constructions are > > > >not correct, because they create an unintended negative sentence which > > does > > > >not fully express what we want to say. Along the same vein is potential > > > >inclusion of ce'u in all ka, and maybe some sort of rigour in NU-gadri. > > > > > > We should not make a tabu of {noda} just because it is a negation > > > though! > > > > Obviously, I was just using noda as an example. I might say mi tavla noda > > when I'm on irc (meaning that nobody's reading what I'm saying) the real > > lojban for that should be mi tavla zi'o > > > > > >- Excessive use of selma'o UI whenever possible > > > > > > Do you mean avoid excessive use, or encourage their use? > > > > > Encourage it, particularly those which are less often used. I'd like to > > think that excessive use of UI might balance out the lack of current usage > > through their not often being part of the original English. > > > > mu'o mi'e greg > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > -- Before Sept. 11 there was not the present excited talk about a strike on Iraq. There is no evidence of any connection between Iraq and that act of terrorism. Why would that event change the situation? -- Howard Zinn