From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Tue Oct 15 18:09:13 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 16 Oct 2002 01:09:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 3455 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2002 01:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2002 01:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2002 01:01:51 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 181cds-00087c-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:06:32 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 181cdK-00087L-00; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:05:58 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox-14.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.114]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 181cdG-00087A-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:05:54 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-70-211.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.70.211]) by mailbox-14.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7936A4821F for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:00:38 +0200 (DST) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: x1 is of type x2 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:02:23 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021015235952.GB18227@allusion.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-archive-position: 2202 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Jordan: > On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 09:55:26PM +0200, Adam Raizen wrote: > > la djorden cusku di'e > > > > > mi tavla tai lo'e gerku > > > I talk like a dog > > > > > > mi tavla sekai leka ce'u jai fenki > > > My talking exhibits the quality of it being frenzied > > > I talk crazily > > > > In both cases the tag modifies the whole bridi, so the first sentence > > Right, but that's what I wanted it to do. > > > is something like 'My talking is like a dog.' To get the English > > gloss, I would use 'mi ne tai lo'e gerku cu tavla'. > > I think yours says "I (who, btw, am like a dog (in some way)) talk". > I accept 'My talking is like a dog.' as another possible gloss of > "mi tavla tai lo'e gerku". I was trying to word it in a more > normal-ish english way though, which is "I talk like a dog". I agree with your glossing. The question then is how to properly render English "I talk like a dog". The germ of a solution lies in the way "like" works like comparatives and coordination: John loves Mary like Sue = 1. John loves Mary like John loves Sue. 2. John loves Mary like Sue loves Mary. cf. the parallel ambiguity of: John loves Mary more than Sue. John loves Mary, and Sue too. "Like" can also mean "as if", "as though": John talks like a dog. John talks as if/though he were a dog. Some examples: you need not eat as if you were going to eat it all. (= "you need not eat in the way that you would eat if you were going to eat it all") You behave as if you were married to her already. (= "you behave in the way that you would behave if you were married to her already") You look as if your name was Ernest. (= "you look how you would look if your name was Ernest") you talk exactly as if you were a dentist (= "you talk how you would talk if you were a dentist") This message is a bit technical, but I haven't sent it to Jboske, because I know you don't subscribe. --And.