From jcowan@reutershealth.com Wed Oct 16 03:52:38 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 16 Oct 2002 10:52:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 76487 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2002 10:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2002 10:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2002 10:52:37 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 181lrd-0001Os-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:57:21 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 181lr6-0001OT-00; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:56:48 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [65.246.141.151] (helo=mail2.reutershealth.com) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 181lr2-0001OI-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:56:44 -0700 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA04538; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200210161103.HAA04538@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:50:21 -0400 Subject: [lojban] Re: brivla for 'intend' To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Cc: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <3DAD6AC9.6060104@bilkent.edu.tr> from "robin" at Oct 16, 2002 04:34:01 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 2209 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: John Cowan Reply-To: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8122456 X-Yahoo-Profile: john_w_cowan robin scripsit: > I would argue that with the possible > exception of unconscious reflexes, it is impossible to do something > without wanting to do it, but that's a controversial position. The trouble with this formulation is that it depends on what is and what is not an "action". For example, I cannot speak (neglecting grunts) without wanting to speak, fair enough. But suppose the room in which I am speaking is, all unknown to me, bugged by X. Then do you think it would be appropriate to say that I wanted to be heard by X? This seems bizarre and counterintuitive, yet given the situation, being heard by X is an inevitable consequence of speaking. Similarly, if I were shooting at a target behind which was standing somebody (but I did not know that), and my bullet went through the target and hit her, would you say that I wanted to hit her? -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan http://www.reutershealth.com Unified Gaelic in Cyrillic script! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Celticonlang