From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Oct 16 05:39:07 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 16 Oct 2002 12:39:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 62320 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2002 12:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2002 12:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2002 12:39:05 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 181nWf-0001jU-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:43:49 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 181nVp-0001jA-00; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:42:57 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 181nVi-0001j1-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:42:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7FF12BE8 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:38:02 +0300 (EEST) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (neo.fen.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.97.69]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CCFD12BCF for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:38:00 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3DAD87DD.7040501@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:38:05 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: brivla for 'intend' References: <200210161103.HAA04538@mail2.reutershealth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020300 X-archive-position: 2210 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: robin From: robin Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out John Cowan wrote: > robin scripsit: > > >>I would argue that with the possible >>exception of unconscious reflexes, it is impossible to do something >>without wanting to do it, but that's a controversial position. > > > The trouble with this formulation is that it depends on what is and > what is not an "action". For example, I cannot speak (neglecting > grunts) without wanting to speak, fair enough. But suppose the > room in which I am speaking is, all unknown to me, bugged by X. > Then do you think it would be appropriate to say that I wanted to > be heard by X? This seems bizarre and counterintuitive, yet given > the situation, being heard by X is an inevitable consequence of speaking. > > Similarly, if I were shooting at a target behind which was standing > somebody (but I did not know that), and my bullet went through the target > and hit her, would you say that I wanted to hit her? > If a consequence is unknown, it cannot be part of the desire. robin.tr -- "The other major kind of computer is the "Apple", which I do not recommend, because it is a wuss-o-rama New-Age computer that you basically just plug in and use." -Dave Barry Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Üniversitesi Ankara Turkey http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin