From xod@thestonecutters.net Fri Oct 18 08:28:13 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 18 Oct 2002 15:28:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 76725 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2002 15:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Oct 2002 15:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2002 15:28:12 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 182Z7e-0003DQ-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:33:10 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 182Z76-0003D6-00; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:32:36 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.111.194.10] (helo=granite.thestonecutters.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 182Z71-0003Cx-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:32:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (xod@localhost) by granite.thestonecutters.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9IFRLX78866 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:27:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from xod@thestonecutters.net) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:27:21 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: enlighten In-Reply-To: <3DB00C4D.9080801@bilkent.edu.tr> Message-ID: <20021018111907.D78824-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 2269 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xod@thestonecutters.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Invent Yourself Reply-To: xod@thestonecutters.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110189215 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, robin wrote: > We run into the problem of ineffability here. Lojban usage tends pretty > strongly towards lujvo being a reasonably accurate description of their > referents (with some notable exceptions!), but people who have > experienced such "higher" states of consciousness are fairly unanimous > in saying that it can't be put into words. The metaphors used are by no > means universal either; compare, for example, Sanskrit "nirvana" > (extinguishing) and Turkish "ermek", which is probably related to > "erimek", "to dissolve". Other metaphors involve expansion or returning, > and of course when comparing "enlightenment" across cultures, we can't > even be sure we are talking about the same state of consciousness anyway. > > One possibility would be to concentrate on the perceived loss of ego in > such states of consciousness. "nalse'i menli" perhaps? le do 1moi selsku pagbu goi ko'a cu natfe le do 2moi .i mi zmanei ko'a noi ke'a nibli le mu'e finti le fu'ivla be le'a li 3 -- Henry McCullers, an affable Plano, TX-area anti-Semite, praised the Jewish people Monday for doing "a bang-up job" running the media. "This has been such a great year for movies, and the new crop of fall TV shows looks to be one of the best in years," McCullers said. "And the cable news channels are doing a terrific job, too. Admittedly, they're not reporting on the Jewish stranglehold on world finance, but, hey, that's understandable."