From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Oct 18 09:17:20 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 18 Oct 2002 16:17:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 2605 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2002 16:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Oct 2002 16:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2002 16:17:18 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 182ZtA-0003QO-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:22:16 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 182ZsX-0003Q7-00; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:21:37 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 182ZsS-0003Py-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:21:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0CC12BC5 for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:16:30 +0300 (EEST) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (ppp139.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.139]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31FEF12B7D for ; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:16:17 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3DB03539.8020900@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 19:22:17 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: enlighten References: <10f.18b905b6.2ae16b56@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020300 X-archive-position: 2272 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Turner From: Robin Turner Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out pycyn@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/18/2002 5:27:39 AM Central Daylight Time, > lojban-out@lojban.org writes: > > << > >> One possibility would be to concentrate on the perceived loss of ego in >> such states of consciousness. "nalse'i menli" perhaps? > > > >> > Well yes, except for the major schools which claim that what they > achieve is maximization of the ego -- "I embrace the universe" cases. > Maybe "loss of the false ego" but even this is not universal among such > schools (and, of course, we may be talking about two or twenty different > things, though, since Stace and [draw blank though I took classes from > him, as I did from Stace], the view seems to have come back to "the same > experiences through different lenses" school.) Well in that case we need to coin different lujvo for the states referred to by different schools according to how _they_ see the sates, then we can start having nice arguments like le nalse'i menli na'e nalse'i robin.tr