From jcowan@reutershealth.com Mon Oct 28 14:21:26 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 28 Oct 2002 22:21:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 63375 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2002 22:21:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2002 22:21:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2002 22:21:26 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 186IGE-0003Kw-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:21:26 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 186IG5-0003Kb-00; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:21:17 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [65.246.141.151] (helo=mail2.reutershealth.com) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 186IFw-0003KP-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:21:08 -0800 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[10.65.117.21]) by mail2.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA20836; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:32:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200210282232.RAA20836@mail2.reutershealth.com> Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:19:02 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: Non-logical (incidental) "if"? To: randall@wonderclown.com Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:19:02 -0500 (EST) Cc: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <20021028221235.GA667@aerosol> from "Randall Nortman" at Oct 28, 2002 05:12:36 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 2350 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: John Cowan Reply-To: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8122456 X-Yahoo-Profile: john_w_cowan Randall Nortman scripsit: > I'm going to the store if you want to come along. > > This is clearly not a logical if-then statement. This is, "I'm going > to the store now, which is relevant to your decision to go to the > store because my going to the store makes it more convenient for you > to go to the store." Of course, one could just say: > > mi klama le zarci .i xu do klama > > But this does not fully capture the sentiment of the English. Is > there a more elegant way? I like "mi klama le zarci .iju do klama". The force of the English "...whether or not you are coming" sounds like I don't care what you do, but this implicature is *not* present in the Lojban version. -- If you have ever wondered if you are in hell, John Cowan it has been said, then you are on a well-traveled http://www.ccil.org/~cowan road of spiritual inquiry. If you are absolutely http://www.reutershealth.com sure you are in hell, however, then you must be jcowan@reutershealth.com on the Cross Bronx Expressway. --Alan Feur, NYTimes, 2002-09-20