From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Oct 28 14:38:16 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 28 Oct 2002 22:38:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 36428 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2002 22:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2002 22:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2002 22:38:15 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 186IWU-0003N3-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:38:14 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 186IWP-0003Mm-00; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:38:09 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:38:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.10.13]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 186IWK-0003MW-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:38:05 -0800 Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (ppp141.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.141]) by firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g9SMbUq25846 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 00:37:30 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3DBDCBC3.8060401@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 01:44:03 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Non-logical (incidental) "if"? References: <200210282232.RAA20836@mail2.reutershealth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-archive-position: 2351 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@Bilkent.EDU.TR Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Turner From: Robin Turner Reply-To: robin@Bilkent.EDU.TR X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out John Cowan wrote: > Randall Nortman scripsit: > > >> I'm going to the store if you want to come along. >> >>This is clearly not a logical if-then statement. This is, "I'm going >>to the store now, which is relevant to your decision to go to the >>store because my going to the store makes it more convenient for you >>to go to the store." Of course, one could just say: >> >> mi klama le zarci .i xu do klama >> >>But this does not fully capture the sentiment of the English. Is >>there a more elegant way? > > > I like "mi klama le zarci .iju do klama". The force of the English > "...whether or not you are coming" sounds like I don't care what you do, > but this implicature is *not* present in the Lojban version. > That's logically correct, but not very, er, Gricean. This calls for an attitudinal, not a logical connector, I think. robin.tr -- "A free man ought not to learn anything under duress. Compulsory physical exercise does no harm to the body, but compulsory learning never sticks in the mind." - Plato Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin