From pycyn@aol.com Tue Oct 29 10:25:56 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 29 Oct 2002 18:25:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 45623 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2002 18:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Oct 2002 18:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.8) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2002 18:25:55 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.1bd.1294954f (3874) for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:25:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1bd.1294954f.2af02cac@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:25:48 EST Subject: Re: [lojban] Non-logical (incidental) "if"? To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1bd.1294954f.2af02cac_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra --part1_1bd.1294954f.2af02cac_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/28/2002 4:15:51 PM Central Standard Time, lojban-out@lojban.org writes: << > On a distantly related note, how would "in case" be translated, e.g., > "I'll bring a blanket in case it gets cold." I say this is related, > because many people might say the first sentence as "I'm going to the > store in case you want to come along," which is not strictly what they > mean to say. They mean "I'm going to the store, and I'm telling you > this in case you'd like to come along." >> I see how the second of these is related to the "if" discussed earlier, but I am less clear about how it is related to the first "in case," other than having the same surface format. The first is pretty clearly causal, giving a reason for the action in terms of possible (even significantly probable) events. The second does not seem causal at all -- for the event describe, going to the store. I may be indirectly causal for my telling you and thus be like the first case almost exactly. It is not, however, asking you whether you want to go along nor even -- I think -- inviting you to go along. It is at best giving pre-permission to go along, possibly as much as "and you are welcome to come along." --part1_1bd.1294954f.2af02cac_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/28/2002 4:15:51 PM Central Standard Time, lojban-out@lojban.org writes:

<<
On a distantly related note, how would "in case" be translated, e.g.,
"I'll bring a blanket in case it gets cold."  I say this is related,
because many people might say the first sentence as "I'm going to the
store in case you want to come along," which is not strictly what they
mean to say.  They mean "I'm going to the store, and I'm telling you
this in case you'd like to come along."

>>
I see how the second of these is related to the "if" discussed earlier, but I am less clear about how it is related to the first "in case," other than having the same surface format.  The first is pretty clearly causal, giving a reason for the action in terms of possible (even significantly probable) events.  The second does not seem causal at all -- for the event describe, going to the store.  I may be indirectly causal for my telling you and thus be like the first case almost exactly.  It is not, however, asking you whether you want to go along nor even -- I think -- inviting you to go along.  It is at best giving pre-permission to go along, possibly as much as "and you are welcome to come along."  --part1_1bd.1294954f.2af02cac_boundary--