From araizen@newmail.net Wed Nov 06 06:46:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Nov 2002 14:46:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 86121 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 14:46:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2002 14:46:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 14:46:48 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 189RSC-0005oI-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 06:46:48 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 189RS7-0005o1-00; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 06:46:43 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 06 Nov 2002 06:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cse.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.16.30] helo=cs.huji.ac.il ident=exim) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 189RS2-0005ns-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 06:46:39 -0800 Received: from xil-34.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.181.34] helo=newmail.net ident=araizen) by cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 189RRx-0008of-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:46:33 +0200 Message-ID: <3DC92B49.9060908@newmail.net> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:46:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] importing ro References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-archive-position: 2453 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: araizen@newmail.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Adam Raizen Reply-To: araizen@newmail.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=3063669 X-Yahoo-Profile: araizen la .and. cusku di'e > The book is quite clear that ro as a quantifier is importing (16.8, > as pc has just pointed out on Jboske). Like you, my preference > would have been for nonimporting ro, but I can't see any grounds > for overriding the book -- it's not inconsistent or 'broken' on > this point. It sure is inconsistent on this point. According to the book, 'ro pavyseljirna xirma cu blabi' is false, since 'ro pavyseljirna' has existential import, and thus 'naku ro pavyseljirna xirma cu blabi' is true, since it is the negation of a false statement. According to ch. 16 sec. 11, this is exactly equivalent to 'su'o pavyseljirna xirma naku blabi', which is false, since once again it claims existence of unicorns, and so either the book allows contradictions, and should be called 'the complete zenban language', or we can disregard that silliness about 'ro' having existential import, and use 'ro' as is standard in mathematics at least (whether or not that is the standard use in logic, as pc seems very certain that it is not). mu'o mi'e .adam.