From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Nov 06 09:43:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Nov 2002 17:43:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 99825 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2002 17:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:43:43 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 189UDP-0006a9-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:43:43 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 189UDL-0006Zs-00; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:43:40 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 189UDI-0006Zj-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:43:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:43:36 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: What the heck is this crap? Message-ID: <20021106174336.GD22843@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20021106001702.GR22843@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 2458 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 03:30:37AM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > Robin: > > On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 11:59:48PM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > > > I don't see why you're reacting with such horror. People are > > > always discovering issues like this that nobody has thought of > > > before. It's inevitable that this happens > > > > Because these are fundamental changes to the semantics of the > > language as used by people who actually converse in it > > > > (Duh?) > > Okay, but what are you saying? That it's inevitable that you will > react with horror when we find (as we inevitably and continually do) > some problem that hasn't been noticed hitherto? Depends on the scope of the problem. However, as you point out in another thread, it is fair to assume that people aren't going to get this stuff right in casual speech, so I was probably over-reacting. > It simply isn't possible to invent 100% of a fully-fledged language > from scratch, document it completely, and only then turn it over to > the users. It needs to be explored -- 'beta-tested', I believe it's > called with software. We're kind of at the debugging stage, and will > be for the foreseeable future, though discovery of problem cases will > hopefully get increasingly rare. > Either we go the two-dialect (Hard and Soft Lojban) route that Lojbab > and Nick have talked about, where Soft Lojban (= Naturalist Lojban) is > shaped by the usage of people who actually converse in it and Hard > Lojban is shaped by continuation of the established principles of > Lojban grammar, or we accept that we are all just in the process of > learning the language, and make mistakes, especially in spontaneous > conversation, where mistakes are the norm even for native speakers. As > far as I'm concerned, that choice is yours and I have no desire to > make it for you. Fair enough. -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ http://www.lojban.org/ la lojban. jai curmi roda .einai to ku'i so'ada mukti le nu co'a darlu le'o -- RLP I'm a *male* Robin.