From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Nov 06 09:46:08 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Nov 2002 17:46:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 51581 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2002 17:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:46:07 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 189UFj-0006bC-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:46:07 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 189UFf-0006av-00; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:46:03 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 189UFb-0006ak-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:45:59 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:45:59 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: What the heck is this crap? Message-ID: <20021106174559.GE22843@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20021106004240.GS22843@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-archive-position: 2459 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Robin Lee Powell From: Robin Lee Powell Reply-To: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 03:30:38AM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > Robin: > > On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 11:33:58PM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > > > Robin CA: > > > Potentially, but there is an actual difference only if you are > > > referring to more than one nu broda: > > > > > > "During each event of brodaing, there is a man who kisses Mary" > > > "There is a man who, during each event of brodaing, kisses Mary" > > > > > > If you're referring to just the one event of brodaing, these come > > > out meaning the same thing > > > > What is your point? That's still a major semantic difference > > My point is that even though there is this major semantic difference, > most usage uttered in ignorance of this point of grammar will > nonetheless end up meaning what it was intended to. I was trying to > assuage your anxiety that your Lojban usage has been containing errors > that you weren't aware of. I'm not convinced that that's actually true, because I can't remember the frequency with which I refer to more than one event at a time, but I appreciate this thought. > > You seem to not realize the magnitude of this problem > > > > Taking these rules into account will largely destroy what little > > conversational capability many of us have managed to accquire > > I'm sure you're exaggerating. And I think that you're setting > excessively high standards for conversational Lojban. It's legitimate > to hope for pernickety rigour from written Lojban, where we have time > to think, plan and revise. But achieving Lojban conversation even if > broken and full of errors is nonetheless an immense achievement. Fair enough. > > This isn't a nit-pick, this is a fundamental semantic change from > > the nature of the language xod and I have been speaking > > As I was saying to xod, it perhaps reflects a difference between those > who learnt Lojban from the book, Which, by the way, is how I learned it; I'm not sure which you were meaning to imply? > and those who learnt it from the wordlists and from discussion on > Lojban list. You have every right to tune out of technical discussions > -- Lojban won't be viable if the only way to learn it is to keep up > with the technical discussions -- but you do either have to accept > that you have your own Naturalist dialect (Soft Lojban) or that there > are inadequately documented bits of the language that you haven't yet > learnt and can't be expected to until better documentation and > teaching materials come along. Heh. When are those going to be written, again? 8) -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ http://www.lojban.org/ la lojban. jai curmi roda .einai to ku'i so'ada mukti le nu co'a darlu le'o -- RLP I'm a *male* Robin.