From jjllambias@hotmail.com Wed Nov 06 14:06:27 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Nov 2002 22:06:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 90367 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 22:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2002 22:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.176) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 22:06:27 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:06:27 -0800 Received: from 200.69.2.52 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:06:26 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: importing ro Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:06:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2002 22:06:27.0091 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0A39630:01C285E0] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.2.52] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=6071566 X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 la djorden cusku di'e >With a *nonimporting* ro, > naku ro pavyseljirna != su'o pavyseljirna naku > (and the book says this is equal). You have this backwards. The equality holds for nonimporting ro, it does not hold for importing ro. >So with a nonimporting "ro da" we'd keep "naku ro da ..." as >importing? Of course. Negation reverses importingness. >This is a lot less elegant than the way AndR suggests, This is not a choice, unless you want to make importingness a presupposition (i.e. untouched by negation). Then neither {naku ro broda cu brode} nor {ro broda cu brode} would be true when there are no broda. > > It can be made consistent, but then we would have to drop the ability to > > move negation across quantifiers while switching the quantifier, which > > is also inconsistent with the book. > >You have yet to show any inconsistency. Just repeating that one >is there doesn't do much. But he is right. Either {ro} is nonimporting, or you can't move a negation across switching to {su'o}. You can't have your cake and eat it too. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus