From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Wed Nov 06 15:52:58 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Nov 2002 23:52:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 57242 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 23:52:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2002 23:52:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 23:52:57 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 189Zyj-000286-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:52:57 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 189Zyd-00027k-00; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:52:51 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mrin02.spray.se ([212.78.193.8] helo=mrin02.st1.spray.net) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 189ZyY-00026s-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:52:46 -0800 Received: from lmin05.st1.spray.net (lmin05.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.105]) by mrin02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2113D23A5DC for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:52:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-71-5.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.71.5]) by lmin05.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6566C14C42 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:52:13 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: What the heck is this crap? Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:54:01 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021106174559.GE22843@digitalkingdom.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-archive-position: 2474 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin Robin: > > > This isn't a nit-pick, this is a fundamental semantic change from > > > the nature of the language xod and I have been speaking > > > > As I was saying to xod, it perhaps reflects a difference between those > > who learnt Lojban from the book, > > Which, by the way, is how I learned it; I'm not sure which you were > meaning to imply? I was meaning that there's one group (which includes you) who learnt it from the book and another group (which includes me) who learnt it from the list and the vlaste. You end up with a weird situation whereby someone like Jordan knows the book inside out, but doesn't know stuff that was part of common lore but never got documented, while I, for example, have only a hazy familiarity with the book, but am comparatively well versed in the undocumented lore. > > and those who learnt it from the wordlists and from discussion on > > Lojban list. You have every right to tune out of technical discussions > > -- Lojban won't be viable if the only way to learn it is to keep up > > with the technical discussions -- but you do either have to accept > > that you have your own Naturalist dialect (Soft Lojban) or that there > > are inadequately documented bits of the language that you haven't yet > > learnt and can't be expected to until better documentation and > > teaching materials come along > > Heh. When are those going to be written, again? 8) ... and in another message: > > > I repeat my request for an errata > > > > It's not an erratum. It falls outside the scope of what the book > > promises to deliver. (The book does deliver what it promises.) > > The book is horredously misleading in key places > > At the very least, could the High And Mighty Masters write this stuff > down somewhere? I will set up a wiki page where we can at least record things that there need to be teaching materials for. Then the pedagoically-minded can write up those materials. As I said, I'm pretty hazy about what is and isn't in the book, so compiling a list of stuff that is actually established but documented would be a useful first step. It is here, to be added to: http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?List%20of%20expository%20materials%20needed %20to%20augment%20Woldy with ideally links to expositions that people will generously provide. --And.